RUMBLE and other events

[MirageBts]

In my years of boating and boat racing, I have been to events all over the U.S. of all different types. I have never been to anevent like this. It was nice because it was not a race and not a lot of pressure. Everyone was there to have a good time and everyone got along very well. The mix of people and boats there were quite diverse. From Delaware Rick with his Tahiti/Infinity with a V 4 Rude to Lake Trash with his 31' Warlock with twin 300 Mercs. Everyone could not have been more friendly and accomodating.

I believe events like these are the future of our passion. I find it very interesting, that before Scream and Fly most of us did not know eachother and in a very short time, a family unit of performance boaters has emerged. This is an amazing thing in such a short period of time and from all of the U.S. Ladies & Gentlemen, there is strength in numbers. If we can all continue to stick together, work together, and play well together - we can become a force to reckon with and bring our sport our passion back into the spotlight. As long as we continue to have a good and safe time, more people will want to join us. One of the other things I find interesting is that this is not just a guy thing, it's a family thing. I have a family and include them in all that I do. These events are family friendly - that's GREAT.

I believe we could unit even more to create a nationwide association with chapters or regions and really become strong. If organized properly, we could benefit with chasing sponsors for our events, possibly insurance, financing, discounts on products, and eventually create a national event like "Boating Week".

I realize all of this sounds pretty far out there but if you look at how things were and how they are now, our type of boating has come a long way in a short period of time. These events are fun and the focas is on performance boating and it should stay on just that. It does not need to become another racing organization, there are plenty of those. I have raced and now I am ready to play. I think there are many people who feel the same way. You can still play hard.

I would like to hear thoughts and comments. I will not be offended if y'all think I'm NUTZ.

The bottom line is that I, my family, had a very good time at the Rumble, the mix of people and boats great. I can not begin to name all of the nice people we met. It was very nice to put a face with an internet name. I think there was a lot of bonding at this event and we will continue to grow as a group from the Rumble and the host of other fine events. The "Make A Wish" children all seemed to enjoy the boat rides. I took several in my boat and you should have seen the smiles. Seeing the children and there parents smile and enjoy life and time together is a very heart wrenching thing knowing their circumstances. This was a very good idea to help this organization. I want to thank Instagator and everyone involved, including the city of Carrollton, KY for a FANTASTIC event an site. We look forward to the 2003 Rumble.


Sincerely,

Brad Collins

[Wishes]

Brad - - I enjoyed meeting the both of you and your adorable boys. I would like to get the chance to chat about other opportunities around the country. My email address at home is Buffy4me@aol.com. Take care, and have a good week ;)

[84exciter]

i'm ready and willing to start the southern new jersey chapter!:cool:

[AnthonySS]

Dear BRAD,

I share your dream huge…. as it has been a long time goal of mine too...to take this performance boat thing to the next level...by making it continent wide and then worldwide.

As you are probably aware from some of our earlier dealings, the Performance Boat Club of Canada (PBCC) at one time tried to set up chapters to EXPAND our sport, it was tuff at best, trying to set up chapters and of course if money is involved, that gets real dicey too!!

But all it really takes is the Volunteers willing to do the work with BIG hearts. Then we know what happens to those volunteers when they get upset or don’t get the recognition they deserve! Those Volunteers are hard to find cause even out of the 2000 members we have here on site, there are only about a couple of dozen of us that are into putting on events…none more dedicated then “GATOR (ata boy Gary!)

Anyway…the way I see this is that we have what we need right here. It’s the Foundation (ScreamandFly) Thanks to GREG TERZIAN, he has busted this thing wide open for all of us and events like the RUMBLE have brought many of us together through the evolution of this site.

I am all for this BRAD and you can certainly count on me to pitch in. I for one am totally enthusiastic about the family flavour too. There is just not enough good wholesome family fun to be a part of these days.

How bout you Brad…how do you see yourself being involved. You are certainly respected by many! Are you proposing to head this up?

Again I share your Vision…So Count me IN!!!

[MirageBts]

I am interested in being a part of what is happening in our sport. I do not know in what capacity. At this time, I guess I am wanting to know what everyone's fellings are? Do we proceed forward as a group to unite and grow? Is it to much to do? What are the Pro's and Con's of trying to grow and unite?

If we did decide to go this direction, it would have to be formed and run like a business. That does not mean it has to cost everyone a lot of money but it will cost something to organize and promote. I would also want S&F to continue to be a large part of the movement. I think Greg has done a wonderful job in uniting all of us "Baotheads". I am amazed at how many "Boatheads" know how to turn on a computer. I'm sure when Greg started S&F, he wanted it to be a useful, informative, gathering place but I'm sure he had now idea it would become so GRAND.

I would also want to see this group continue to be a "Rebel with a cause". I believe that helps motivate each and everyone of us. I commend Gary Williams for his drive and willingness to continue with his event under his current circumstances and for choosing "Make A Wish". Unfortunatley we did not cure any fatal diseases or raise millions of $$$ at the "Rumble on the River". As you have all read the post on the weekends events - teary eyed, like myself. It made a difference in some very special peoples lives.

My vision is large but what I realy see is that we would organize into regions or chapters. Each region could host however many events it wanted. Not all of the events have to be as large as the Rumble on the River, Radical Boat Reunion, Balz to the Wall, Outlaws Performance Boat Rally, and some others that I'm sure I left out. These are all great events and will continue to grow. We probably could develope some others as time goes on.

All I am asking is, what do y'all want to do? I don't have all of the details work out but if we want it and have a common goal - we can have it.

Sincerely,

Brad Collins

[B.Leonard]

These events are great for not only getting together and having fun, but it's a race that you can still plan for, prepare for and participate without putting so much on the line ($$$). The challenge of being competitive and not breaking, of making a deadline and having it all come together. More than just a get together to have a couple beers and check out the tunes your buddy just installed in his boat. Something challenging.

With the proceeds all going to charity, it really changes the tone of the event for the better over the sanctioned events.

There does need to be a little investment into better signaling, marker (buoys), communications and maybe timing devices. Maybe a slalom course/event for those of us that think a straight line is rather boring :D

The Rumble needs to be broken into North/South East/West, with a common charity/sponsor(s). A 16hr 1000+ mile trip is too much for many people including myself.

-BL

[84exciter]

how bout chapters like ex. north east,mid-alantic,south,upper-mid,lower-mid,north west,south west.keeps the intrest a little more local so people don't feel like they can't be related to or have to drive 1000 miles to an event.someone like me could never organize an event in Ky.,i don't know anything about the area.But i could for a mid-alantic site ie:s.jersey,maryland
what do you think?

[MirageBts]

These are the things that can happen. One of the things we could do as a group is to create a manual on how to form local clubs and events. Not all events have to be huge. I think it is better to have several small events and only a few realy large events. That way people don't have to travel so far and they can plan to attend to larger events. Large or small, events can be anything from Poker Runs to Ralleys to Speed Runs to Cruises to ??? And just because you have a club doesn't mean you have to have an event every time the club wants to get together at a spot and hang out. There is so much we could do with this, it just takes focus and a plan.

Brad Collins

[MODVP22]

What I couldn't find words for, Brad just summed up.:)

[dan agnew]

a few years ago michael martin approched my son and i about his dream of a hot boat rally in our area. we put our heads together and have had i think 8 in the few years we have been together. we always get some new people at each new rally and this allowes us to meet new hot boaters from other areas.
S&F put us with the fla guys earlier this year at alligator lake and we enjoyed the trip, water in fla, warm weather and the super group of hot boat freaks in central fla.
we now have a core[very hard core] group that gets together every sunday in central s.c. and just stand neck deep in the lake and b.s. drink a few bud lites and make a few passes. not always in that order!
we have found that a few new guys have started to hang around in our group and i hope we can assist em in getting into hot boating and encourage em to travel with us to other events.
our rallys OUTLAW PERFORMANCE BOAT RALLYS will continue to grow as long as we try and help others and not look down at the ones with less performance than we have
this is a neat deal and it appears to be growing as long as we keep it on a fun level. having raced for years it was always tough to enjoy oneself with the pressure to perform

thanks to all that enjoy boating and fast boating!!

Danny
!!

[MirageBts]

Congratulations to the Outlaw Performance Boat group in S.C. That is exactly what I believe can happen in many other places. It's not about racing, it's about performance boating, hanging out together and assissting one another. As Dan mentioned, since their rallys started there are more new people joining their ranks and they do more together as a group.

I know alot of people read this board that do not post. I wish some of those people would respond to this thread. One thing that S&F has done is to bring all of us together. If we want to do something or have a question, all we have to do is post. There is probably somebody on the board that has or can get an answer. That is another reason if we want to grow our sport, we need to us all of our resources. You are all resources.

Brad Collins

[AnthonySS]

Nicely put Dan

Dan Said

"Our rallys OUTLAW PERFORMANCE BOAT RALLYS will continue to grow as long as we try and help others and not look down at the ones with less performance than we have "

That mind set will go a long way!!

[Instigator]

Brad, does your's and every one elses vision include I/O's, Jets and Vee drives or just O/B's??
I am on the same wave length but the effort and passion I put in is strictly for O/B's.
Period!
The Rumble will remain this as long as I have control.
I think that's a large part of the reason it has become the success that it is.
I would be involved in a Nat'l and Canadian organization as long as it has the same vision.
If it is dilluted with other forms of power plants, the Rumble will remain the Rebel event that it is today.
Did any one see the two gorgeous I/O cats at the Rumble??
Had talked to those people several times and they wanted to compete.
I said no.
I think as soon as you include everything/everyone else, O/B's get lost in the sauce just like have been for the last 30 years.
They are in survival mode right now, and my passion is to keep them in front of as many people, as much media as possible to at leats buy some time to figure out how to survive.
What do y'all think??
I'm qurious.
Gary

[B.Leonard]

You know how it will turn out in the end if they compete, so why keep 'em out?

-BL

[84exciter]

WE COULD GO BOTH WAYS,I'D PERSONALLY LIKE JUST O/B'S BUT THE ADDED POWER OF OTHERS WOULD BE HELPFUL

[MirageBts]

I personally don't mind if it is all O/B's or if it is opened up to any powerplant. I would just like to continue to see growth in the primary focus on 25' and under performance boats. Larger boats would still be very welcome but the reality is that the big boats already have events to go to. I think boats 25' and under need to continue to have events much like yours to have fun, play and meet other people with the same interest.

Your question of O/B's only is for the group to decide. I am thinking Democracy not Dictatorship - for the people by the people. We can be O/B's only and if we decide later that we wanted to expand to other powerplants, we could.

How about more feedback anybody????


Brad Collins

[AnthonySS]

PBCC was originally mandated as a Club for Performance Boat owners owning boats that were capable of 60 mph+. That was not to say that if you had any boat you could not subscribe. So then it was mandated to anyone who has an interest or owns a performance boat. It was that simple made it a little more wide open!! Nothing worse then meeting up with some guy on the lake that has a Starcraft bow rider that does 50 and us saying you can’t hang out with us. It just is not good for the future of sport cause that same guy might not by that 2.5 EFI Rocket if you lead him to think the O/B crowd will only accept him, until after he has a hot O/B rig!

The club in it early days had about 135 members. The split was literally 50/50 of O/B vs I/O and also 50/50 of over 24’ and below 24’.

Me personally I would have no queries for a heavily O/B influenced group. However I would not exclude the I/O crowd if they want to hang out with us O/B freaks. You would be excluding some real cool people if it were just O/Bs.

Most of my closest I/O friends are not the White-collar, Corporate types. And some of the white collar types have frankly said they have a WAY better time at the O/B influenced events compared to the HIGH dollar Poker runs.

First of all it is more cost effective, like you don’t have to pay 1000 dollars to participate before you hit the water or even buy gas. Frankly they say the people are way cooler. This is coming from people that have the luxury of running both hi-dollar offshore poker runs and have also participated in budget poker runs, like the Lake Muskoka Charity Poker Run or The Rice Lake Children’s Wish Poker Run, both held her in Ontario.

Of course are base at SandF is O/B centered, but I would not exclude anyone that has an interest in Performance Boats…period! Again they just might be the next guy to play with on the lake someday!!

[trbocharge]

All good questions and comments:

I also believe this is the start of something that will(or has already) gotten big. Being a racer(outboard drag, roundy round, offshore cat I/O and outboard) and performance boater and performance marine owner that has gotten away from it the past 4 years, this site has got me hooked to the point that I have gone out and brought a boat to race but more importantly to participate in events like the rumble........and what a great event that must have been. This site is pretty damm powerful and I find it addicting at times.

In reference to limiting to outboard, I agree for the following reasons:

1)Poker runs have been generally reserved to the larger offshore boats(not in all cases but generally). Mostly due to the waters that these runs are held. Some poker runs do donate to a charitable organization, but not all.

2)Outboards, for the most part are more affordable and probably will attract more families.

3)The outboard carries a mystique to it that I feel the inboards and I/O dont have..........especially the hi pro motors.....and it is american as apple pie!

4)Key to all is to maintain a level playing field where everyone is looked upon as an equal, not just that he/she has the fastest boat. I believe if the big 1/O get involved, that would be lost!! If they want to participate, they could afford to go and buy an outboard.

5)You may want to limit the size of the inboard or i/o to 25 feet or so........as Brad mentioned

6)Success is the primary goal of the endeavor. Lets look at this site(outboard sector). The success has been largely contributed by the outboard flavor......Lets keep it that way.

I concurr with Brad on the future, we can always add inboards in the future.

:cool:

[Propster]

I am with the mostly outboards under 25 feet concept. I would not exclude any boat from the club. I like anything that looks cool and goes fast. I have some friends that went to the Cougar reunion and there was everything from 18 foot jetboats to 27 foot I/O's. There was not really a feeling of closeness there because the boats were so different. Just because all the boats were Cougars, it was not enough to bring on the comradarie.

I am sure it is the same for all jets or all v-drives or even all tunnels. I love the outboards!

[MirageBts]

I agree Propster. You can't exspect the different types of boats with different types of propulsion to have similar interest. Jet boat and V-drive people are more alike and generally don't see eye to eye with O/B's. If this were to become reality, maybe it should be limited to boats with lower units. That would limit it to O/B's and I/O's. We could stand alone with O/B's only without a doubt. I have found that the people with the smaller I/O's tend to be more like the O/B crowd. Like I said earlier, we could start O/B only and see where life takes us.

I think what is more important, is to know what everyone thinks about this whole idea and what everyone would want to accomplish. Because if you don't have a purpose or goals you will never get there - where ever that is.


Brad Collins

[Instigator]

25' Checkmate I/O tryng to drag race a 1100 lb. Allison O/B??
Or the O/B's trying to run in the wake from some of those pigs??
O/B's or nothing for me and the Rumble.
Plenty of Poker Runs for those guys to sit at dock and compare gold chains.
Gary

[MirageBts]

Instigator, don't get mad but if memory serves me right you had a prety large boat at the rumble and so did Dennis with the 31' Warlock, y'all seem to do OK. What about the guy with the 20' or 21' I/O. Besides what we are talking about is not a drag racing club here. There are plenty of drag clubs. Like I said, I don't care but I will look at both sides of the coin.

Brad Collins

[MODVP22]

Ok, so say there is a boat club for the mid-ohio people (just an example) there can be boats of all kinds, but I think if cirtain events stick with cirtain types of boats..that's great. Just because say you and the guy next door with a big block belong to the same club, that doesn't mean the Rumble has to be open to I/O, jet, v-drive and other style.
Oh yea, Next year, can we have a drag race for all the big boats that can't accelerate well..like the Skaters, your Sonic, the Trinity, LoL:cool:

[LaserModVee]

Originally posted by MODVP22

Oh yea, Next year, can we have a drag race for all the big boats that can't accelerate well..like the Skaters, your Sonic, the Trinity, LoL:cool:

Whoa, whoa, whoa there buddy!!! Did you see that 22 talon out there?

Seriously, the tank category or class sounds like fun....I plan on laying an ass whoopin on Instigator's Sonic first round!

[Stream 1]

I think everyone who attended had a great time boating, meeting people with like interests, and doing something that just felt good with the kids. As a manufacturer I have many opprtunities to give money, time and . . . . but like most small manufacturers I must pick and choose events or programs that make since for my product, ability to take part, and keeps me and my company within a budget. I'd be interested in what if anything everyone thinks about maufacturer involvement?

Any comments??

[Instigator]

I only took my Sonic because I was a little busy, and tight on cash to get my Stream (the real Rumble boat) ready. Sorry, different priorities I guess.
It also only left the freakin dock to be used as a tool, GPS runs, photo shoot etc.
Dennis was planning on bringing his killer 19' Liberator (O/B) but did'nt get it ready either.
(but wait, they were both O/B's too??)
Clearly, you have a different vision than me and that is fine.
The Rumble is and always will be O/B's only.
Your club/business can and should be what ever you want, I don't care.
My question to you is, if you start it as O/B only, how long will it take before you allow I/O's and will you put it in writing??
Clearly there is people that like that idea, and will buy into it.
I'm not one of them, and think it becomes the same as the $300. per event poker runs.
I am not about who has the shinniest matching gold chains, or matching crew uniforms, or color cooridinated tow vehicles.
What I and the Rumble are about (and always will be) is guys like Charlie M.and Delaware Rick that thrash all year long to be able to make one or two major events a year.
Or Chris Lake that could run what ever he chooses but decides to run an ancient cross flow V-4.
Where do guys like this fit into the grand scheme of things??
These guys and most are'nt going ot go to 6 events a year all over the country.
They can't affiord to, and don't want to.
I don't know where we go from here, but I can tell you that I have a very specific vision and it does not include jets or I/O's.
I am about O/B's and nothing else.
I was ready to give up control of the Rumble a few months ago.
NOT ANY MORE!
The Rumble will live its life as a O/B only event, other than exhibition events such as Dennis's challenge to Ken W.
But you know what, $500. to M.A.W. , I think I'll allow it :)
Gary

[MirageBts]

Actually that sounds like fun and that's what it's about anyway. I'm sure we all have enough stress in our everyday lives to contend with. That's what makes the Rumble and similar events so appealing to so many people - lack of stress to perform.

Is it me or does that last part sound like something to do with VIAGRA.

Brad Collins

[MirageBts]

First off, no one is talking about taking your event from you or making you do anything you don't want to do personally or with the Rumble. It's yours, we all have been aplauding you for doing a great job. It will continue to be one of the larger events annually. I told several people that I could see it possibly growing into an event like Bike Week in Daytona, Fl.

Second, nobody said Charlie M, Delaware Rick or anyone else has to go to all of the events. I doubt anyone of us could make all the events that we already have around the country, much less if new ones are developed.

I think you have taken a lot of things out of context with all of this. This is not ment to be a display of gold chains, uniforms and matching tow vehicles. What happens if somebody shows up at the Rumble next year with all that and has the best that money can buy in a Hot Outboard Rig? Are you going to tell them to take the gold off, take the uniforms off and hook their boat to a different vehicle. Sorry man, this is America and that person will show up eventually.

As far as putting anything in writing, I don't see the point. What we are discussing does not exist yet and if you go back to the beginning of this thread it says something about a Democracy - by the people for the people.

The focus of this was so more HOT BOATERS could unite on a local level and make some of the larger events as time and money allowed.

Brad Collins

[MODVP22]

I think that if the Manufacturer wanted to et involved, help sponsor, etc. that would be great. For the Rumble, if Allison, or STV, HydroStream, Mirage, or any of the like wnated to help, it would be awsome.
Brain..yeah I know, that's why I said boats that don't accelerate that well...That 22 Talon freakin' FLEW!
I like the Club idea, but individual events like the Rumble being an outboard thing only is cool. Afterall, how many outboards so we see at these IHBA events? That doesn't mean that those guys don't belong to clubs with those who own outboards though.

On a humorous note, I would love to see the smile on Gary's face when those arial photos come out in a magazine with all them 2 strokes below instead of the bigblocks like we always see in HotBoat :)

[MirageBts]

I would like to set the record straight for anyone who has been following this thread. I wanted to open the discussion for a National Hot Boat Club. My intent was to do just that and see how everyone felt about it. There was never any intent on my part to be the owner of this so called club. Nor was it my intent to take over anyones event including "Rumble on the River". Instigator I apologize if that is what you think I wanted to do. I have been behind you 100% and have given you a fair amount of advice on certain aspects of the Rumble. It's yours, nobady can or will take it from you.

As for the Club I do not know if it is a good idea or bad idea. I just wanted to get some thoughts from everyone else. I have had numerous conversations with people in the marine industry and performance boaters about just such a club. I would like to see it happen as a Democracy, as I have mentioned several times already. I would like to be apart of it in some capacity. I do not what capacity that I would, could , or should be but I am willing to help as probably many are too.

Maybe the timing is bad for just such a topic but I felt like it was perfect timing to get ideas after such a great event.

Sincerely,

Brad Collins

[Michael Martin]

OK I have to get my 2 cents in here...

I have went the route tring to "deter" larger boats from being involved with our events down here. Basicly letting them know that its was a 1/4 mile deal etc

Guess What?

IT DOESN"T WORK.

Why? 75% of the "big" boat owners told me they wanted to come & play because they use to own a 16' baja or a Hydrostream & they would still have it today but they have a family etc

These guys want to be involved they (in most cases) want to help & BS with everyone.

Well I need their support & want them to come out & have a good time. 2 of the guys went out & bought smaller boats just to come play with us. The local dealers need the buisness, & we as a whole should help them when we can.

The Outlaws Performance Boat Rallys are for everyone, from pontoons to 1/4 Masters to 43' Black Thunders its welcome.
My hole goal is to just get everyone togeather for a good time.

At our events there is a 20.00 registration. Its sole purpose is to cover costs and hopefully raise a little moneys for the Shriners Childerns Hospital.

We give away shirts, life jackets, anchors, gift certificates, oil, etc
At the May rally we gave a way over 1000.00 of Earnhart collectables. Very little is donated. I personally go out & buy 80% of what we give away. Do I get (or ask for) that money back - no. If I can give someone a life jacket & a gallon of oil most likley he'll come back. One day we'll have donations & be able to give a really big check to the kids.

Brad what your suggesting is a good idea. Rus, Gary, and myself are willing to help but these events are very personal. We put in 6-8 months of planning just for a 2 day event.
When you get into major promotion its gonna cost big.
I don't want to pay someone to help me promote our events. Here again it raises my cost that I have to cover & thats less money for the kids.

I would love to see 250-300 boats per event in the next 5 years. But to be honest If the crowd doesn't get any bigger I'll still be happy as hell. All of the guys that come down are wonderful people that would do anything to help ya & I consider them all really good friends.

wheeew...ok got it out.

I'm not tring to offend or upset anyone but hey its my opinion.

PS - Next Rallys Sept 7th & 8th

Mike

[MirageBts]

Michael, Thanks for the input. It's good to have input from everyone involved, especially event organizers such as you and Instigator. All I had in mind was some way to unite people that are in the same geographical area, so they could plan outings together and an event of their own, if they want. I also thought it would be cool if local clubs could continue to form using regional names such as Bayou Boyz, Sunshine Syndicate, and so on. These types of things make it more fun and add to the flavor.

How about any other organizers? Balzy, Baker, Russ ???

Brad Collins

[BK]

Like Brad said earlier, this isn't about trying to change something that is going well, or taking something away from anyone. I just talked to Brad and told him that I think some might be misunderstanding what he's saying. He's not saying he wants to do this himself, just wants to start the organizing process to spark the interest. he's actually been talking about this kind of thing for a long long time.

He wants to help with gathering ideas for future fun, fun more often, fun at more places. Uniting us all. There are already chapters similar the Rumble -- some big some small. Rumble on the River, Byuboyz, Anthony's Canadian group, Radical Boat Reunion, Outlaws Performance Boat Rally, Balz to the Wall, Firewater and more ...etc etc.

If they were united somehow , maybe a national club or groups of divisional/regional clubs ??? -- it could really turn into a niche high performance force where there currently is an empty space. With standards to hold on to, we can instill an image to the public that says 'These <insert group name here> boating people are great folks!' When so often, we hear the opposite regarding "them damn speed boaters", and sometimes are harrassed off lakes and rivers just by association. :(

Open discussions are great -- a pulse on what everyone wants to see and do at a hot boat event to ensure more fun times. Brad only brought this up now because everyone is still so fired up and geeked about the Rumble and he wanted to capture everyone's ideas while still fresh on their minds.

Unity builds strength. Scream and Fly gave us incredible unity and a place to check the pulse! This board is the backbone to these events. Talking to those who have previously "been there done that" can help the next guy doing one to avoid mistakes.

I personally don't see anything wrong with making the event OUTBOARDS ONLY. At least right now at this time in our lives.....But I cant ignore what would happen when the Collins family outgrows the current 22 footer, or Scott and Kathy trade the Baja in for an I/O? Do we have to say good-bye to everyone then? Gosh, I sure hope not. It makes me sad just to think about it. :(

What if Warby or Balzy has a really cool boat he wants everyone to see --- but it isn't an outboard? Or if Lake Trash or Sam Baker buy an awesome Ron Jones ET boat? Will they be welcomed still? Each event will obviously make it's own decisions about this kinds of stuff -- It's just something to think about now, and maybe chat with others about.

What about the idea for a 'manual' to help other chapters put on similar events too, with the least amount of stress. Kind of like a "Do's" and "Don'ts", to avoid pitfalls. An "IDIOTS GUIDE TO HOSTING A HIGH PERF EVENT" :)

The "RUMBLE" and other events have proven there is a ton of people like you and me out there willing to work together, assemble, spend time, make t-shirts, hang out, give rides, donate prizes, play tunes for free, volunteer, be a taxi, work on neighbors boats, sweat your asses off, take videos, and just plain give of themselves --- all just to see a bunch of smiles on lots of faces. That's what it is all about. Giving more than you take. Making people happy.

It's really very cool. We just want to do what we can to make sure it's here to stay. Hot Boaters rule.

[Rickracer]

Nobody said I/Os weren't welcome. Just that they could not compete. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong about this. There were a few I/Os at the Rumble, one flagging racers and such, another just hanging out and having a blast. I believe the both were S&Fers. I think they felt just as welcome as the rest, but they didn't/couldn't compete in the events. :cool:

[wierdkid]

i like alot of u feel that the focus should be on o/b's. we are a rare breed and i think because of that we should try to promote the sport to a point where it as prominent as other forms of boat racing and once we hit that level maybe we can let the other guys have a more prominent role in the events.
the idea of having regional groups like the sunshine syndicate and the byuboyz is great. i think it will strengthen us as a whole by spreading hands on knowledge of o/b tuning and creating closer friendships. as a side note i was wondering if any of the guys involved in the 'rondak romp would like to create a formal club of sorts an maybe talk to marinas on the hudson and elsewhere about helping out with promoting the events and maybe getting some more people in.

[B.Leonard]

I vote for a united nation wide club, with specific charities as benefactors, local chapters (ByouBoyz, Sunshine Syndicate, Country Marine guys, RondackRomp NY folks etc. etc.), all hot boats invited, OB, Jet, V-drive, I/O.

Each chapter needs a point man to bring that area together and run it the way Instigator has done with the Rumble to benefit the charity. The more effort the people in the chapter put in, the more cash the charity gets.

Use S&F as a central common ground to communicate.

Use the Rumble as the "family reunion" and keep it the same. It could be a part of the Central/Mid West chapter.

-BL

[BK]

Originally posted by B.Leonard
I vote for a united nation wide club....Use S&F as a central common ground to communicate. Use the Rumble as the "family reunion" and keep it the same
-BL

Same here, BL! That's it!

When Brad and I were racing, we often traveled to 6-10 races per year. Most of the time, we'd hang out with the same racers once we got there. Afterward, we call each other & talk about it for hours, and make plans for the next one.

Today, we still go to boat races, but since we aren't racing, we just aren't in the inner circle anymore. Sadly we have drifted away from those close bonds we once had, because we just don't have that much in common anymore.

I raced with So. Cal. Speedboat Club and Cobra on the west coast. The boats in these clubs included kneelers, OB tunnels, flat bottomed inboards, ET boats, cracker boxes, Jersey Skiffs etc. They needed the boat count to stay alive, so it was necessary to combine all factions of racing boats at each event. It was awkward at first; me pitting beside the K-Boat "Dark Side of the Moon" racing team, where their paint-job cost as much as my entire rig! :eek:

But we turned it into a fun thing --- and began our annual Parker Arizona "Boat Racers Go-cart Challenge". Inboarders vs. Outboarders. :D We also had the Annual Fireman's Barbebue in the mountains. All these things brought the OBs and Inboards closer to one giant family. Today you can't tell them apart. Eventually SCSC adopted the COBRA members when it went defunct, and they are now united as one.

Brad and I went to a lot of boat races last year, and really began to miss the comaraderie we once had with these guys. One trip home, Brad said how we wish there was a place for us in our current type of boating. A Club we could join. Where we could travel to 5 or 6 events (not too far away) and see many of the same friends again and again, and build more of this closeness too. And work for a common cause.

A place where our children can make friends they'll have for a lifetime (like they did at the Rumble) and see them several times each summer. And when we get home, we talk on the phone/internet for hours and hours afterwards.

I think it would be really cool! Hope it happens.

[Michael Martin]

I agree with what your saying.
I just wanted to make sure we're not tring to go for something thats unobtainable.

My only concern ( like everyone elses) is to ensure we promote boating as a whole. Performance boating is more our mainstream but by letting the "novice" boaters be a part of our events I think we can grow stronger even faster.

I guess to me is more of a quality not quanity deal. Alot of the guys that come down are x-racers. Its cheaper and more fun to "play race" at one of my events that it is for them to go racing.

They can do unlimited passes, call out every boat on the bank, whatever, and feel awesome when they leave.
To me thats what its all about.

Mike

[JTS Racing]

May I throw in a couple cents?

Look at the "showcar" clubs. Almost one in every town and some of these guys do serious travel to make events. No reason why boating of all kinds could not benefit from a simular structure.

As for outboards only, well thats in the air. By doing so when you are having an event to help a charity, I feel you may be depriving that charity of some real valueable resourses. Ya don't get me wrong, but a tricked out jet or V-drive with all the chrome and engine goodies does get attention. And, when your trying to draw a crowd to benefit a cause, then the crowds mean $$$$.

Organizing local culbs that can communicate and set dates for larger get togethers would be great. But what would be the limit. I can't make a large event every month. 4 or maybe 5 a year tops. So who gets to host these larger events? Rotation?

Before this past weekend, I felt only the races was were its at. Not any longer. I enjoyed the Rumble more than any race. No pressure, no crap, no stress. Events like that is were its at. Ya keep putting um on and I'll be there.

[Sleekster]

I like the o/b only, but if you go setting the msrker at 60 mph, I'll have to do some work quick or somebody is going to need to spot me a few!

We have a few spots in the Chesapeake and tributaries that are fun to run.....but I can't see a 15 footer dealing with a ton-o wakes from Mr Twin I/O....

I like what you're saying Brad. More of the Just Hang-Out Together On Our Boats thing.....I'm looking for that for myself and the girls.

Maybe we can have a slow-pokers race! I'm in! The Sleek against 771....just seems a little too, too, um, er... predictable! But I don't mind playing waterboy! There's purpose even for us slow-pokes!

But fun gatherings....84 exciter, susquehannamirage, soon to be boatgofaster....we'll have some p/u fun, but a planned in-advance gathering would be cool.

Thanks for kickin' the idea around.

[Raceboat Rus]

I can not agree with you more, I feel that we are at the crossroads were Harley riding was 25+ years ago. In the old days when Harleys rode into town the city Fathers locked up their daughters and loaded the shotguns. All that has changed, Bike week at Daytona and Sturgis can attest to this change. The real enthusiast will always be here, gas crunch noise restriction manatee zone and green motor legislation, the hard core enthusiast will overcome those obstacles. Much of my focus is pointed at trying to get newcomer to come to the sport. Maybe those that have jet skis are ready to make the next step, and move toward a performance boat. The Rumble The RBR and Outlaws Rally are what might just point them in our direction, it is the style, the attitude, the belonging and the comradery that have Biking so big. I do not think that anyone has ever bought a Harley because they saw one ripping down the back strait at Daytona at 170 mph. It is the sizzle that sells, and boys do our boats sizzle. This would be a great benefit to the industry; I have tried to point this out to the industry. And only a few have seen this path to the market. But it seems that many in the industry think that Mike M., Gary and I are fools. I have filled a shopping carts with mail and made phone call till my ear was flat and have received lies rough talk and refusals from the industry person who should be interested in us because we buy their boat, motors, services, and accessories.............. In fact I asked A* performance boat manufacturer if they would like to make some kind of representation at the Hot Boat Happening she gave me tons of run around and B, S so I finally had to point out to her that my event done only two things promote performance boating and raise money for sick kids at APH hospital, and which one of those two things she has a problem with. But I will call them again. There are those who have an enlightened view of things and have supported these events [thank you Brucato...]. This man is a proactive thinker not a reactionary. But these events can go on with out the industry's support but I would rather work with them rather than despite them..... I am sorry if I ramble but I can write books and books about this, because I am appassionato about this subject , I will write more later, because right now I need a strong drink and a hankie

[B.Leonard]

I know who our (Sunshine Syndicate) point man would be :D

Hydro - good point, the local events should be smaller and maybe even the main "family reunion" (Rumble) every 2 years where we all get together. A Rumble every year is too much for me. I need to allow for other family outings. Besides this would allow Gary to seek employment every other year ;)

If you keep the charities as the focus it will always have a fun tone, but there will always be the underlying grudges that will have to be "raced out" :D

-BL

[Michael Martin]

Last year Rus and I bumped heads with our events. We unknowingly had set events on the same dates. To eliminate that we talked & set up a schedule so that there was almost an event every month starting in May and ending in Dec.

Thats what is needed.

This year there is a race at Plymouth the same weekend as our event down here (9-7,8-02) Is it a big deal? Not really.
Some of the guys will just go to one on Sat & the other on Sun.
Most of the racers have told me that as soon as their done racing their coming to our event.

I think if we plan the dates wisely and in advance it can be an awesome deal.

What if we group up a few states & work it backwards.

for ex:

div- 1 - FL, GA. AL
div - 2 - SC, NC, TN
DIV- 3 - .......


Div 1 plans for the 1st weekend of every other month starting in april
DIv 2 plans events the 2nd weekend of every other month starting in May
Div 3 plans events on the 3rd weekend starting in april
etc

It would get to where it overlapped and there was an event somewhere every weekend across the US.
The boating season comes in faster in the lower US as its warmer so there may be 6 events in FL and only 3 in NY.

I looked at the way apba has it broken down but I think by state would be better.

Most of us are willing to make 6-9 hr drives for a weekend of fun. But not much further unless its a big todo.

So multiple events can be planned reasonably close togeather as their wouldn't be much if any conflicts.

Does that make since?

Mike

[Rodney Nance]

I have been watching this thread and trying to figure out what would be the best way to run these events. Gary did a hell of a job on the Rumble but Gary's not normal. (I mean that in a good way Gator) It has taken most of the last 6 months of his life and aged him a year last weekend. If new clubs are going to start up the load will have to be spread out some. Gary and the other guy's who have experience doing it would be a great help. As Brad said a manual/guidebook or whatever would help a lot. If people/volunteers know beforehand what they are going to be doing and how to do it things should run better. I have been a member in several racing clubs and have seen the good and bad sides there. I don't want to see this get into a ruling class and the peasants type of thing as some orginizations seem to end up with. Racers will take a lot more abuse than we will because of the money & points. A boating club will have to be a lot more laid back and flexible. The balls rolling let's help it along.

[wierdkid]

i like the idea of rotating events. however if we could make it so that anyone could get to an event once every other week or at least every month during their boating season. additionally, we could have each region host a big event. maybe something like two big events a year (one in the east one in the west) and have the clubs rotate responsibility for hosting it.

another idea to help the sports image is maybe to get more of a focus on show and shine competitions and cruising for the smaller events so as to avoid being compared to illegal street racers.

[JTS Racing]

A lot of us have the luxury of being able to make long pulls once a month. The majority doesn't or won't. For example, here in mid-TN there are 4 nice lakes all within about 1-2 hrs of each other. No big deal for travel, but a strong club of 50+ members would likely only see 20 or so on the water if a rotation is done amoungest these lakes. But its these 20 that will make the difference towards growth within and make the pulls to the larger events. I'm all for having a road trip everyother month, and this giving time to visit my home waters. The major guys, Gary, Mike, Rus, and others are the ones to get together and plan their events and space them as to allow everyone to get a little R&R in between. Could ya handle a Rumble every month?? Also, one big blowout a year should be planned so we can spend this hard earned vacation time on.

So someone get busy with 2003. I've got a calendar that has all open weekends for now with a fresh sharpie......and the first date is???????

[MirageBts]

I'm glad to see everyones feelings, thoughts, and concerns. I'm not near as good as Boatkitten at writing what I want to say but here goes.

1) We should decide what we want from the Big Picture ( a National Club or North American Club). Then we should try to build the regional clubs with the Big Picture in mind. That does not mean that if an event wants to have an all O/B event that we would not accept or embrace the event. The whole idea, is to bring our cummunity closer together not dictate to the promoters of events.

2) Building Regional Clubs: We should all get together to form a document that tells how to form a club and a step-by-step guide for putting on an event. That's not to say it has to be done that way but just a guide to help. I know there are plenty of people on S&F that have expirience, that could contribute. Nobody should be affraid to contribute and nobody should feel that they are giving up TRADE SECRETS. After all, putting on an event is not ROCKET SCIENCE. It's organization, delegation, and hard work - am I right Instigator? The bottom line is if we want it to get better, we all have to continue to share our thoughts, ideas and work together.

3) Regional Events: These events do not have to be large and cumbersome. The local club should have a meeting, set a calendar of where and when they want to gather. The local events could all be at the same place or at different places. Loacal events can be just a gathering or organized activity. The main focus on a local level would be to get people together and have fun. Once the club has some harmony, they can (if they want) put on a large scale event. There is no pressure for a local club to put on a large event.

4) Large Events: Large events are GREAT!!! We should have them but not every weekend. If we strive to have a lot of large events, with people feeling like they have to travel long distances all of the time - the fun will be gone. I have seen it happen in O/B circle racing and O/B drag racing. People stop going to the local events so they can make the circuit. The local events begin to have weak turnouts and fade away. Once the local events are gone, the pipeline for new people comming into the sport is gone. This is not what we want , in my opinion. The large events should happen and be something we all look forward to going to.

5) Strength in Numbers: In my opinion, if we can get our act together, we can accomplish a lot. There is strength in numbers. This would be very helpful to the organizers of large events when they are seeking sponsorship. There are probably many things that could come our way.

6) Rules: I don't think we should get carried away and start getting all political but I do think there should be some general rules. Things like abiding by all state and federal waterway laws, general conduct, if some one turns out to be a real trouble maker - how to terminate them from the association. I know some of you will not like this rules thing but it will help organize us and make us more acceptable as a group.

7) The bottom line is that we all want to have fun. When it stops being fun people will stop showing up. This does not need to be complicated, just organized.

8) If it's OK with Greg, we should continue to use S&F as the Official Website.

I'm sure there is much more I could write but that is the meat and potatoes of it. If we want to get the ball rolling, we should start now while everyone is in the mood so we can begin to have our act together for next year.


Sincerely,

Brad Collins

[B.Leonard]

Let me know what I can do to help. I think you need to assemble a group of "point men" for the regions first, and work with them. Then they can delegate the work down to their helper bees.

Hydro, I like your attitude!

-BL

[84exciter]

Like I said b4,I'm ready to get involved in the South Jersey/Mid-Alantic area.let me know what I can do to help!:D

[AnthonySS]

North American PLEASE...

I hate to think that that would even be an issue....unless you Americans think us Canadians should not be able to play with ya.

Anyway hopefully I can assist if you guys let me, I think I can help out a great deal.

THANKS BRAD and others for your thoughts so far...I want to talk to you on the phone soon...

when can I call.

shoot me an email if you want with contact numbers, I have Val's if they are the same

email me at:

anthony_santocono@kawneer.com

[MirageBts]

Which came fist the chicken or the egg?

We probably should establish a board of directors. Possibly one from each region so everyone has a voice. Once a board is established, we should probably decide on
1) a name
2) Mission Statement
3) Establish goals
4) Work on a how-to document
5) Determine a governing system
6) Incorporate

With this type of organization I'm not sure we need a President, Vice President and so on. That is probably a good question to ask a lawyer when discussing which type of corporation to form. Do we have any lawyers on S&F? There would be much to do in the early stages but would get easier as it got organized. I am willing to help as I'm sure BK is too. We are not looking to be the owners or dictators, we just want to be a part of it all.

How about any input from anyone else?

Brad Collins

[AnthonySS]

Once you start establishing a named group and format..it will be important to register the group as a Not-for-Profit organization, therfore you will open yourself up to better sponsorship and priviledges and often free advertising.

This is not to say you don't collect some dues from members...cause you will need some money for my next point

Also once you start setting up a a board of directors etc...better start looking into liability insurance.

Cause if someone dies or gets hurt at your event...they or thier family will be coming after you (the director) and maybe even want to take away all your fast boat assets.

Maybe we need to look at director insurance thru what a racing league does

[Raceboat Rus]

It seems out west that they have there own thing with manufacturer sponcered rallies. if you have an Essex or an Eliminator or a Carrera you have your own rally to go to,, Matin Gary and Brad and I should set up a vision and mission for our type of events... the big confrence call is coming,,,Toys for tot run in cenral Fla Dec 14 more details later

[MirageBts]

There are several other people that should be included in helping establish this, including Sam Baker, Balzy, AnthonySS and anyone else that wants to help. Anyone that has club and organizing expirience is more than welcome to join us. I do not proclaim myself to be the leader but I will take the bull by the horns and try to get the ball rolling. No doubt there will be some phone calls. If anyone would like to contact me to discuss this, the best place to start is my email MirageBts@aol.com.

Brad Collins

[Rodney Nance]

How about a meeting of the minds at Jasper on Friday afternoon Oct 11 after the river run and before the serious grudge racing starts. I think a lot of the people mentioned will be there anyway.

[B.Leonard]

Anthony SS
Balzy
Raceboat Russ
Sam Baker
Brad Collins
Mike Martin
Gary Williams
Rodney Nance
Rex?

Anyone else?

Seems like the south/north and central are covered pretty good. What about the North East? Liqui-Fly? Left coast? Us1? Propster?

The Florida events have all been pretty good sizes this year and last. The Tot's run. Alligator Lake, RBR in Palatka etc.. The East Lake get together is looking big as well. All we need to do down here is tie 'em together under a common charity/sponsor. No problem with attendance that's for sure. Then there's the APBA races that attract a lot of pleasure boats just to watch.

-BL

[Michael Martin]

Hey guys Hydro hit on something. Lets put the dates out there & see how much crossover happens.


Dates for next years Outlaws Rallys

5 - 10,11 - 03

7-12,13 - 003

9 - 13, 14 - 03

Jasper might work - got to check with the wife on whats going on in OCT.

Mike

[Rocket]

All Hot boats should be included! I am an O/B owner now, but that could change at anytime.
The AHBA has already got a pretty good start on us. With events, insurance, sponsers ect.
Maybe we should look into joining forces with them? Southern Chapter, Yankee Chapter, South/East Chapter ect.



Just my two cents!:cool:

[H2Onut]

all of the threads but it seems there are two schools of thought.


Eiither Open it up or Just OB.

It is VERY clear that Gary wants this to be for OB. It is HIS event to decide. I think it is a good idea to have it for OB lovers. we all talk the same language. Its is a OB site we communicate through. THis is HIS baby like this is Gregs website. The choices are HIS. he spend 9+ months getting this together, traveling, making phone calls..endless nights. He made it the PREMIER event. THere is NO doubt about that. I have SO MUCH respect for this guy it is unreal. I wish I had a company, I would hire him in a heartbeat. anyone who can pull this off with the sucess he had is a true leader/organizer/politician/problem solver and referee.


INSTIGATOR YOU ARE THE GREATEST SHOW ON EARTH.

I can go on and on about how nice the place was, How GREAT all the people were. THer were a few, VERY few minor snags, but all were overcome.

Gary Williams for President !!!!


Now on the flip side...I can play devils advocat real well.

ALlowing all hot boaters would definately make the event larger, This is good for the town and good for the Charity. THe more $$$ we pump into Carrollton the more $$$ they will pump into this event.
HOw could we ask for more, I dont know, THey did it ALL, tents, power, water, porta pottis...What this town did was remarkble.WE OWE THEM A GREAT DEAL!

SO what ya do, hell maybe give the I/O jet boats and other Tues, Wed, Thurs and we will have Fri Sat and Sun...

AGAIN I would not change a damn thing, it was almost perfect.

[BathTubBabe]

I hope everybody doesn't mind that I add my two cents to this thread. I am more of an observer then most of you, but you seem to already have the main ingredents that you are striving for. You have a great communication board to unite everybody that is interested in performance boating. You already have large events sheduled all over most of the country (Fl, Sc, La, Az, Ill, Ky) add a few events in the New England States and a few out west, in time. There are already smaller events going on. Toys for Tots, RBR, Alligator lake and some I have read in other places. There is already a main group of leaders and supporters for those leaders.
There is already some local support from Marine business on the board. There are some key celebrity members on the board. There are charity organisation to donate money too. People are traveling distances to go to events when they can. It is already here. Growth and a bit of coordination is all that might be needed. As far as the different types of boats, each event can set up what type of racing or if there is racing. They can open it to all boaters or let it be selective. Each event doesn't have to have open boat class racing. Just my two sence worth. :eek:

[Michael Martin]

Another good point.

I do not want to host a race. My events are for fun. We have the State record attempts that are a 1/4 mile and measured by stalker radar but its still for fun.

An all out race is way to demading and expensive to host and race. We don't have that kind of money. I invest roughly $1500.00 per event for shirts, rental of a radar gun, give-a-ways, postage and other advertising. I spend over 90.00 a month just in postage sending out newsletters and updates. Just to keep everyone informed on whats going on.
I had been sending on fliers on the rumble with my newsletters tring to help get the word out.

I want the events to be as inexpensive as possible and 20.00 is a reasonable donation for everyone. I also ask for everyone to register so I can get their information and they also sign a waiver so if they do blow over it will "deter" them from sueing me.

Also if you make this into a national org. I think your going to run alot of people off because they don't want the membership dues and all the "inter-government". They just want to come down, BS, play & go home.

Putting on an event is fairly easy. Its just a matter of getting the word out, getting permission to use what ever water area for putting in and pulling out boats, and getting permits if nessasary.

In SC we have to have permission from the Department of Natural Resources to have an event with 20+ boats. 20 boats and under its not nessasary.

The Marinas are more than happy for us to use their areas as they will make money from drink,food,and gas sales.

Scream and fly is a perfect area to help get the word out. I also send out fliers to most of the dealerships and marinas in SC. Posting the information on other smaller forums helps as well.

Parking is always a concern. But it will work itself out.

The biggest thing I had to realize is it is for fun & the event coordinator should enjoy it as well. If not they may not want to have them as often or ever again.

[Michael Martin]

these are the rules and guidelines we used - very simple & to the point & they sign this at the bottom

Outlaws Performance Boat Rally (OPBR)
September 7th and 8th , 2002

Rules and Regulations

1. All boats must meet Coast Guard and DNR Safety rules and regulations.
2. Each person on board of the boat during any speed runs must wear a Lifejacket.
3. I agree to hold harmless on account of any injuries to myself, my family, or my guests, the organizer of the event, the event staff, any participating dealers or manufactures, or any third persons involved in the event. I realize that I am responsible for my own actions and those in my group are solely responsible for any accidents or injuries, which may occur.
4. All boaters entering the show – The decision of the OPBR Judges will be final and no disputes will be allowed.
5. I agree that all pictures and or information may be used for advertising of this event by the event coordinator.
6. I am responsible for my expenditures.

& they sign this at the bottom

[Stream 1]

Sorry I have been off line a couple days, as a manufacturer of performance boats I like the things I'm reading. I think it is important that these events allow for all brands of boats, that said I would still like to involve my company to help promote the concept of safe, fun, family oriented performance boating.

Events like The RUMBLE can change how the public views our products and the people involved. Anyway you look at it thats good for performance boating.

It would be great if all events included a charity as the main benefit. Would it make since to try and decide on one charity, it would allow for both a bigger effect with that charity and could help promote both the organization and the events? Working with one group would also making organizing easier.

Jim Contzen
Hydro Stream Performance Boats

[MirageBts]

I realize this thread has grown very long and most of the post are from only about 8 to 10 of the same people. However there are a lot of people that are reading it and not posting and I wish they would throw in their two cents worth also.

It would seem after reading all of this thread, that trying to form a North American Club would not be what the majority wants and that's OK with me. I tend to think on a large scale and still believe good things could happen with a club. As it has been mentioned, it would be a lot of work to organize and there would be some sort of membership fee and some liability issues. The liability issues are present at each event that occurs already but many people do not realize that. What has come out of this thread is some good information about coordinating and organizing events. It would seem to me that even if the club thing does not occur it would still be a good idea to put a how-to manual together for others in our community that want to host an event.

On another note, while raising $$$ for a charity is a GREAT thing, not every event needs to be about raising $$$. People would grow tired of going to events if it's main focus was about raising $$$ and getting into their pockets. It would be nice if there were a common charity and a few events a year would host and try to raise $$$ for the common charity.

Please correct me if I'm wrong about my interpretations so far. I realy want to thank everyone for thier input on this thread and please know that if I can ever do anything to help any of you, all you have to do is ask.

Sincerely,

Brad Collins

[Stream 1]

Brad,
I see your point about charity functions at every event, but I still think trying to decide on one charity for some of the events would streamline the process and would make organizing events easier.

It would help alot to have a go to person at the charity that understood what the group was about. It would seem to me it would also make it easier for beginner organizers to have a person to contact and work with right out of the gate.

Contact information could be made part of the manual you have been talking about.

Jim Contzen
Hydro Stream Performance Boats

[Stream 1]

Just went back and read all of this thread. It seems like a lot of discussion regarding outboards only or outboard ... Although my company produces only outboards, I think the group should allow all interested people to join and attend. (Including non boat owners)

If this group or club is started by outboarders it will always have an outboard mentality. The locations for the events, the events presented at the event and even the idea of using Scream and Fly as a forum will dictate an outboard type of group. It seems to me that people coming to an event with a 20 foot Crownline I/O will soon get the fever for performance. I don't really see many of the people I met at the Rumble selling their Stream, Allison, or Mirage for a Crownline????? If the idea is to promote performance boating we should not only cater to those already in the sport but try to attract new people.

As a possible sponser that type of mentality gets me thinking I need to be part of this as its good for the sport and good for my company. I would think the idea is grow good relationships with people of like thought, how many people are out there trapped in the body of a Crownline or not boating at all that might join the sport and become a good friend if given the chance?

Jim Contzen
Hydro Stream Performance Boats

[Rickracer]

I say let anybody be a part of the organization, but just don't let inboards or I/Os compete when there are competitions. That way they can get the benefit of the good times, good people, and camaradery, without trashing the racecourses. :cool:

[MODVP22]

Jim has an EXCELLENT point. I have a friend here with a Sea-Ray that he doesn't mind, but would grin ear to ear with a Daytona, Jaguar, HST, GS, etc. Perhaps leave cirtain events strictly for one type of boat, but, that doesn't mean that all other events have to be one type boats. I/O's vs I/O's in the drags, Jets vs jets, Outboards vs. Outboards, and then maybe like a class where its whatever you want..no camera at the finish line, just for fun like we did at the rumble.

[Georgia Boy]

i think regardless of what you do, you are going to have people who agree or disagree with you. Brad i like your idea, and i think it will work. I am and always be an outbord man, as well as all 90% of my friends, but I think in an orginazation a maximum size would be the trick for regulating its members. I know that when we go to the river there will be anything from a 10 ft jon boat to a 28 ft I/O cuddy, but we all have a good time and that is what it is all about, the only downfall I see is that alot of the guys I know would not want to be a part of an international organization. I think Micheal Martin hit it on the head. This is supposed to be fun, and getting to know people and learning more and promoting our sport, The other things is what do you tell the 16 year old who's dad owns a bayliner I/o when he wants to join or hang out? well if you tell him no you just became and ass and lost him and probably his friends as potetial performance boaters, now as far as the rumble and this site, it is Gary's vision for it to be all Outboard and he does a great job with it, and i will be here as long as the site is here, but if you are going to start a performance boat organization then do just that make it for all performance boat drives. However if you want an outboard performance boat org then clarify, it is all about what your vision is Brad.

[Stream 1]

As I said if the group is organized by outboarders thats easy to accomplish. A guy with a blown v-drive isn't going to like hanging with a bunch of outboards if he can't play. I think the thing would be self policeing, if it is promoted as a outboard group but not limited to only outboards.

There have been many times I've taken guys with fast v-drives or fast I/O's for a ride in a Stream and they get serious about buying one and selling their boat. Once you get someone excited about fast outboards its hard for them to go back to a poor handling v-drive or a I/O pig. If you get flying you just get it!

Besides, I'm pretty sure Ken Warby didn't bring an outboard but what a great guy to met and talk to. Performance is performance and talking about it makes me happy.

Jim Contzen
Hydro Stream Performance Boats

[T-REX]

I haz read all the post in this thread...Brad, your ideas and intentions are in a good direction...But my dealingz wit clubs are not really good ones, now I don't meen to rain on anybodyz picknic, or piss anybody off, I am just basing my feelingz and my experences...I have put on several events, sum good sum not so good, but every one there enjoyed thierselves...that wuz my goal...My events(Like the rumble)were free, except for the Race @ Bulow, and the entry fee wuz to cover insurance and ambulance...I took care of the awards, thru sponsors and even a couple out of my pocket...At the BYUBOYZ Rally last year, I had no set cryteria for boats being there...Didn't think it wuz important...FUN wuz the main topic, and the main rule wuz HAVE FUN, or go home...They were sum safety rules, but the std water saftey rules laid down by the state officials are sufficent in my book...I got the same goose bumps watching Johnnys 36' spectra sail by the Prop Stop @ 125mph, az I did when Acie's river racer flew by @ 105!!! We had a couple squirt botes that played...One showed up Sunday and called out a couple of O/B's...great rivelry, wuz a crowd pleaser...I luv the sound of a 2.5 @ 10.5, but if U don't like the sound of a Big Block Pro motor @ 7000, and that Idle wit a 600 lift roller, well all I kan say iz U jus missin sumpthin...I race ODBA, all O/B's...I know the rules, O/B's only...to me that iz the only way to keep thingz in perspective...a big block kant run wit a 300 drag wit out a major rule change to benifit one or the other...But, That iz all out competition...Brads Ideas are not all out compitition, so my feelingz are to leave it open toall attentees, and if U have a competition event, handle it accordingly!! Big botes like to play too...CLUBS, now here iz wher I will ruffle sum featherz, but U no how I iz...My dealingz wit clubs ain't been good ones...I have belonged to all diffrent kinds, NHRA, ODBA, DSRA, NSRA, Local street rod club, AMA, local Model airplane clubs, OOPz, did I fergit APBA...All kindz, shapes and sizes...They all are the same in a manner of speeking...I won't git into the depth of them, cuz I didn't post this to git an ongoing arguement...But clubs for me have never worked for me...Now I know U thanking about tha BYUBOYZ, but let me clerify the BYUBOYZ thang...BYUBOYZ iz not a club, it haz 1 rule, HAVE FUN...their iz no dues, no CLUB...Everything Byuboyz related wuz donated by it's volenteered members...When I started the BYUBOYZ website, it wuz just to pass the winter, then Raptor klimed on board and took the site where it iz now(volenteerd, free)...Laketrash, stepped up and furnished every one making the Rally last year with a Rally shirt, with thier name, and the name of the boat they drove...all U had to do iz be there!!! Laketrash did it own hiz own...Food wuz there, donationz only...U pay U eat, U didn't pay, U eat anyway...CLUBS, alwayz have a way of going flat real quick...before U know it things jus ain't fun no mo, they are costing U out tha ass, and the whole reason for joining iz gone...Joining a club iz suppozed to be fo the enjoyment of having numbers to carry the load, helping organize, and carring out a mission...Well, it don't happen...their a few in ever club that carry the load, the others are thier to pay to bitch(about everything)...So, I jus prefere to leave ot open(like the BYUBOYZ, The rumble, and spur of the moment gatheringz) and prepare to do all the work by ya self, then when sumone jumps in to help, it really pickes up ya outlook on things, rather than bringing U down when no one steps up to help...I hope I haven't pissed anyone off wit what I have said, cuz it wuzn't my intentionz...I jus had to put my 3 centz worth in...anyway U guyz go, I'll support ya till I see a reason not to, but I will tell why, when I do see that reason!!!...REX:cool:

[Rocket]

You tell it like it is! My motto for boating & related events is;
NO WHINNING!

My two cents!:p

[Ally 1988]

I've gone to two event's this year one rally (HOT BOAT REUNION, SMITHBEND RALLY, RUMBLE ON THE RIVER, ) i don't now where I'll go next but If it aint no fun i won't go again so far I will attend the same ones again next year. I would not mind being apart of a National club as long as it can always be fun I just think that it won't be that way like T-Rex said.Maybe just use it as a means to advertise such events or gatherings I really don't care about what you ride in I'll only go as long I have fun there was a great mix of people at the rumble no hot heads and such just good clean fun this is not always the case. keep it simple invite people to come have fun and yes keep it open to all like stream 1 and Ga Boy said thats the only way to show people the light is to show them how much fun OUTBOARDs are something to think about to is if wez don'ts getz dem yunger crowdz in thayz will alwayz be ridin dem lake lice around.

Making more plans for another road trip where to go next I prefer not to travel more than 500 miles Its a little much for my toyata to pull boat to far and it aint good for my old body either and no I'm not going to buy bigger truck Because if i do I can't go to no more events.

OUTLAWS, JASPER DRAGS,:cool:

[Rodney Nance]

Rex I pretty much agree with you on how most clubs seem to end up. But maybe we could keep that from happening by recognizing the problems early on. I am thinking somewhere in between the APBA & the Hells Angels.

[Michael Martin]

From what I have gathered this is what everyone wants -

1. Events that are fun

2. the cheaper the better

3. If ya get called out by a big block powered Scarab & your in an Allison - better go....

4. Organisation(sp?) - Keep it simple. Form a Calander that every one can plan events by. (I'll be more than happy to coordinate this one and have it online for everone to see)

5. No membership dues. Keep a running list of everyones information so they can find out about events coming up in there area.

6. Have one charity that all are contributing to on large events.
Small events (less than 50 boats) leave it up to them

Corrections ??? Additions??? Is this a good overview???


Mike

[captcarb]

I agree with you. I have never belonged to an organization that I could really love. Some that I belonged to claimed to exist only to have fun, but they took the fun out of it. AND, it gives the ambulance chasers another entity to sue.

So, I nominate you for president of the new organization, so you can keep it on track!

Jim

[Instigator]

As I've said from the start, the Rumble has been and always will be for O/B's only, PERIOD!
I do need to add an explanation in next years flyiers and website explaining MY stand on this subject.
I've told everybody thats asked, from day one, "you are all invited, but the actual competition is limited to O/B's only".
I think if I advertise/explain that more we will attract more "spectator" I/O's and jets etc.
That's what the grudge racing is about.
I would pay to see Eric Saloom line up beside a trubocharged big block I/O Cat and take his money :D
But only after the "real" competition is done.
I will not put in the effort/time/money in this event if it were open to all boats.
I agree with Russ and Mike and every body else that we (event organizers) need to try and communicate on scheduling so we don't step on each others toes.
The Rumble will be same time, same place next year!
O/B only, did I say that already:D
I think Brad is on to something with his club/organization idea.
I have been thinking seriouslly about doing the same thing but O/B only. But, I get far enough into the thought process to realize A: I don't have the money ,and B: I don't have the time.
I would support a group/club/oraganization if you guys "build it".
The Rumble will remain as is though.
And I will remain a 100% O/B guy.
My opinion is that as soon as you allow alternate power sources, you totally lose the focus that we now have on O/B's.
With the EPA and Carb, they have a hard enough fight on their hands w/o letting the I/O guys use our "platform" to fight the up-coming catalytic convertors for I/O's.
They are fighting about mandatory modifications, we (O/B's) are fighting for survival!
Gary

[84exciter]

AMEN BROTHER!

[Instigator]

For those of you thinking about doing the club thing, the Performance Boat Club of Canada has pretty much already done this.
Performance boats of all breeds.
These guys have done the best job of anybody I've seen.
I joined this Spring and their monthly newsletter is as good as Hot Boat mag and they organize and run approx 1/2 dozen events per Summer.
They send you/me fliers with a map, event description, report from last years event, and cost.
I belonged to the APBA (still do) for the 9 years that I raced and the race fliers that they sent me were a form letter, one side only, nothing compared to what these guys do!!
Anthony used to be deeply involved and Yammer still is.
They have a booth at the Toronto Boat show almost every year and even advertised the Rumble at this years show.
These guys are way ahead of us as far as a club and holding events go.
Check it out, http://www.pbcc.ca/
Gary

[B.Leonard]

Interesting.... $40 Membership fee.

Their web page needs some help, could barely see that yellow lettering.

-BL

[Instigator]

Meant to take a copy of their news letter to the Rumble but mine keep walking off??
It is pure class though.
They do tech articles, event reviews/reports, and a classified.
Lots of Hi Po/Racing O/B history up North.
Yammer did a 2 or 3 page story aboout his trip down for Rumble 1 complete with muliple color pictures. When's the last time you saw that in anews letter.
Got my APBA Propeller News letter today and it don't hold a candle to what PBCC has going.
Some of the most beautiful scenery to run in too.
Gary

[AnthonySS]

THANKS for continuing to recognize PBCC for thier efforts...

HOPE the rest will allow us to help out in a useful way!! I think we can help!!

[MODVP22]

Gary brings up some very good points once again. Cirtain events can be geared toward cirtain types of boats, and I think that's great. If the Rumble is all outboards, great, if anotehr event is open to all, wonderful, but Brad really is on to something.
Gary also brings up another excellent point, with the EPA and CARB stepping in on the outboards (right or wrong) someone has to stand up for us..and who better to than the people who run/own outboards. How else are we going to get our voices heard? Obviously they haven't been heard yet..4strokes and DFI are being forced upon us more rapidly, but that's another arguement.